Personality Zone

Posted by unders on Jul 18, 2008 Does anyone know how ENFPs usually react to disagreements? I know quite few ENFPs and they seem to be the most tolerant of other/different ideas. But, im curious if there would be situations when they become unyielding like described above?

Posted by JackDermody on Jul 18, 2008 I tested this out on myself and, yes, you’ll find this terminal Idealist quite upset if you trample on certain core values, such as cooperation (over competition) peacemaking (over most any kind of potential conflict), or nurturing (over some impersonal service). In the workplace, I might simply write you off and avoid dealing with you rather than “argue” lengthily about it. However, if I’m married to you, I will “fight” for at least understanding of the depth of my feelings for these values. When you marry an Idealist, you get a democratic family, a full-frontal effort to resolve conflicts, and all the nurturing in the world – including the massage oil, soft lights and music, and so forth. That being said, I think Dr. Lovegood’s advice that one ought to listen to the Idealist will work well with all four temperaments. And, for sure, violating the core values of any temperament has to lead to trouble. Peace and Harmony to you.

Posted by LalaChan on Jul 18, 2008 yup, my mom is an enfp idealist champion and im an enfj idealist teacher, when we argue..she goes in circles. it gets annoying at times but i've learned that if you just kind of sit and nod your head..she'll get quite on her own time. however, when she doesnt, i have no clue what to do because she is like a river with no end. everything just comes out of her mouth one topic after another and i have no clue where she's going with it.

Posted by DrLovegood on Jul 19, 2008 Certainly listening is good for all temperaments, but it is the most important for Idealists. Violating the core values of any person will get you in trouble. With Guardians, they generally tell you up front their beliefs and expectations and those tend to fall within a fairly narrow traditional range. With Rationals, it's fairly hard to even get to the place you'll violate their core values. They put a lot of boundaries around themselves. Artisans are sometimes able to live with someone who violates their core values as long as it isn't against them. Idealists, however, present a fairly stark contrast. They are likely to have problems setting boundaries in the first place. Then they may move the boundaries not even realizing they're doing it until it suddenly hits them in the face. That's when it hits the fan.

Posted by JackDermody on Jul 19, 2008 Thanks, Dr. Lovegood, for bringing up Idealist rage resulting from not setting boundaries. I've had some very, very important relationships in my life that I am responsible for ruining because I'd compromise my values far beyond what I should have -- in order to "please" the other person. Inevitably, I'd one day end up screaming, or ranting, or raging: "I did this and that for you and you must be an ungrateful moron, etc., etc." Yes, Artisans and Guardians usually have no trouble spelling out their boundaries right on the spot. It's taken me a long time, but I've finally learned to emulate them. I'm light-years happier now...and easier to live with.

Posted by unders on Jul 19, 2008 Hey Jack, I have someone noticed that. I have a good amount of ENFP friends and I think alot of times i feel closer to them then they feel to me. I'm not sure though. Do you have any advice for me? ENFPs are really expressive, but sometimes i also feel like they do that to be the "fun" one? I dont wanna assume to much, so I like to ask for what you think?

Posted by unders on Jul 19, 2008 Because, i think i tend to expect more from them...maybe coz they are idealist or i feel we are close. But, they kinda all end up disappoint men, and I sorta sink into a depressive mood, thinking its something i did

Posted by mkb32 on Jul 20, 2008 unders, you are a generous soul. Bless your heart. (I'm not being sarcastic --> as an ENFP, I try to not be disappointed by me) What we need is to hear from someone else who has an ENFP that they love. **knock, knock** Skip, have you got any insightful words you could share for an innocent bystander?

Posted by unders on Jul 20, 2008 Hi Mkb, Thanks for the complements. =) Insightful words for a bystander? I'm not sure what you mean...i sorta have a hunch..

Posted by unders on Jul 20, 2008 Can you be more direct mkb? haha, i guess i am a rational ya know

Posted by JackDermody on Jul 20, 2008 Unders, I don't think most Idealists are putting on a show to look "fun". They are usually genuinely seeking meaningful relationships. Before I guess further about why you are disappointed, let me ask you what your expectations are.

Posted by unders on Jul 21, 2008 Hey Jack, Thanks for your response. Well it is sorta general observation with ENFP friends and romantic interests I've had. For example, my ENFP friend, he is very flakey. I guess, he can't follow up on his schedule or promises to hangout. Since, Ive just left college, keeping in touch with friends is really important to me. I find ENFPs receptive when I try to keep in touch with them, but they generally don't make an effort to keep in touch with me. With romantic interests, I think ENFPs are generally really warm and somewhat flirty, and that sometimes gives off the wrong message to someone. And, once they suspect you are romantically interested in them, then they start distancing themselves from you. I guess it's a lot of mixed messages, and can get really really confusing. Don't give me wrong, I really enjoy ENFPs and I really like their character (I get along best with them and I like how they think, compared to other types). I find myself to have the best chemistry with ENFPs. However, i can't help but feel that they may sometimes sacrifice a specific friendship to have a large circle of acquaintances (especially the super extroverted ones)? What do you think jack? Being an ENFP yourself, do you have any insights for me?

Posted by JackDermody on Jul 21, 2008 Well, the right ENFP will probably surprise you eventually. (Recall that they are a very small portion of the population, so finding them can be difficult...except on this website!!) Of all the Idealist Champions and Healers I know, they fall in love hard and deeply. I say keep looking, Unders. You just have to encounter the right one.

Posted by unders on Jul 21, 2008 Thanks Jack for the encouragement. I certainly hope what you say about champions and healers are true. Also, i suppose a traditional educational evironment probably isnt the best place to find an NP huh? Thanks!

Posted by unders on Jul 21, 2008 Just curious jack, Any particular temperament that you get along well or like the most?

Posted by JackDermody on Jul 21, 2008 I enjoy SFPs best of all-- the Entertainers!! They're fun, they're giving -- never a dull moment. In fact, I married one.

Posted by InventorChampionIntuitive on Jul 22, 2008 ENFPs often do like being at the center of attention, but supprisingly ENFPs, unlike SPs, have a special place for those who fit their ideals. ENFPs have ideas that they value far above anything sensory. ENFPs can be a bit like puppies, in that if there is something or someone new and interesting, they will want to explore it. At one point I had a circle of friends who were INFP, ENFJ, and me an ENTP, and I deeply enjoyed being with people I could share ideas and friendship with like that. It didn't bother me that neither shared my Thinking style, as both are highly intelligent, and intelligence in any form is wonderful to be around. Unders, I think there is some data that Ns are more highly represented in higher education, than the general population. If you are aware of any place with a higher concentration of iNtuitives than higher ed, please tell me where that is!!!!!!! I found that silicon valley is loaded with iNtuitives and Rationals. Who else is going to start a company based on an idea in hopes of creating something new?

Posted by unders on Jul 23, 2008 Thanks for the advice... I guess it just seems like ENFPs can be really down to earth but at the same time a little too opportunistic. I;ve noticed that ENFJ, ENTJs, INTJs, INFJs dominate higher education. I actually found a study by www.capt.org that says ENFPs, then ENPs, then NP in generally were most likely to drop out of 4 year liberal arts college. It was research done by the journal of applied psycological type. I subscribe to it, I guess i can send you a copy via email if your interested. Yea San Fran is full of Ns, My goal is life is to move there if im able to find a vc for my internet site. Thanks! Good luck with your explorations InventorChamp

Posted by InventorChampionIntuitive on Jul 23, 2008 I don't think that three types can dominate higher ed. At least my experience in higher ed showed that all four temperaments and most types were represented, with artisans being represented the least (at least other than the parties). There is personality beyond type, and that may be what you are thinking of. ENFPs might be gladflys, but they are likely to be loyal to true friends.

Posted by Sasha on Jul 23, 2008 Unders ... I joined just to reply to your delima about your Idealists friends not seeming to value your relationships as much as you do. I don't know the whole situation, so I may be off but I wanted you (and others) to know that an idealists (specificly me) can be one of the most loyal freinds you have; even if you haven't spoken with them in years. I suppose the interverted part of me doesn't need to socialize to maintain the freindship and I am very unlikely to call my freinds to do something. But once the conection has been made ... and I sense a value in our relationship (value as in emotional support or a sense of bonding ... or if I feel like you respect my "values" ...lol) you can always count on me to be there when you really need. And even sometimes just for entertainment value depending on the identity I've chosen for this week. lol Anyway, don't be offended by your freinds. It realy is like ICI said ... I am like a puppie ... always interested in the new thing but the cool thing about that is while I am there, I am cudly, careing, playfull, and overall loads of fun: and even though I move to the next new experience ... I always come back when you need.

Posted by Sasha on Jul 23, 2008 BTW ... on a romantic note ... good luck? I don't know how my husband put up with me long enough for me to make up my mind about us while we were dating. I don't know if other idealist have this problem ... but it is so hard to make up my mind. I'm alway trying to look at it from all angles. And I get so busi worrying about making the right desicion for everyone else, that I forget to make the right desicion for me sometimes. So ... my point is, if you are looking to get involved with an idealists, be prepared for them to constantly change and give them space and time when they are stressed. Most of all Listen as DrLovegood says. Just don't get lost in the rambling as they are trying to figure things out. Make sure you get the conclusion. (or at least as close to it as they get).

Posted by DrLovegood on Jul 23, 2008 Sasha -- Healers and Champions tend to have a more difficult time making decisions than Teachers and Counselors do. ................................ unders -- some Rationals have a tendency to want to go straight from casual friendship to a lifetime commitment. That can easily scare women off. If a woman is flirty until she realizes you're interested in her, then she isn't currently interested in you or you are going way too fast.

Posted by InventorChampionIntuitive on Jul 24, 2008 I agree with DrLovegood and Sasha. ENFPs are like puppies, they will explore everything, but will always be loyal to those who they love and who honor their ideals.

Posted by JackDermody on Jul 24, 2008 So we NFPs will not be obedient and detail-oriented like Guardians. We shy away from the depth of research and thought of Rationals. We only wish we could climb into an Artisan's skin and head for a whole summer's vacation. So what the heck do we have to offer? Well, there's PLENTY -- and both we and the whole world are better off for it: Enthusiasm, optimism, high flexibility of thought and action, passion of all sorts and intensities, natural highs and joys, exciting friendships, endless conversation in endless directions...just to begin a PLENTIFUL list!!!! Love us and we'll love you back -- a hundred fold.

Posted by Yotsuya on Jul 24, 2008 Great article! Sadly my girlfriend and I are of totally different political opinions and our only disagreements are on politics, the definition of right and wrong, and whether or not she is pretty. Sad when one of the things you hold steadfast to is a low self image.

Posted by Sasha on Jul 24, 2008 Great comments everyone! I am so wordy at times but I think you understood what I was trying to say. I did think it was interesting how DrLovegood pointed out that Healers and Champions have an harder time making choices than Counselors and Teachers because I alway teater on the edge of J (Counselor) more than P (Healer). In fact, this is the first test that put me in the P category. Maybe, I just have a hard time making decisions. Lol. Anyhow, I love learning about this stuff and I greatly enjoy you comments. Thank you.

Posted by Perseus on Jul 26, 2008 Champion is an illusion created by a Guardian according to their own terminology. The very word created by a Guardian according to their own thinking processes causes friction and could result in murder (an ESFJ Unicorn variant tried to murder me). Anything to resist change. According to the Guardian, there ain't no visions, it is just fantasy, they do not invent, they copy. Do you get ah ha !?

Posted by unders on Jul 27, 2008 Dr lovegood, Thank you for you kind advice. But i have to say, from my observations ENFJs differ significantly than ENFPs, especially the very p ones. I can help but feel that your description of idealist are more ENFJ than ENFP. .................................................................................. Sasha, I have no doubt that you are extremely loyal to your friends since you are an infp. I have a bit of infp in me, although im definitely an intp, and loyality always come first. My problem is with ENFPs, especially the ones that are really extraverted and cannot follow up on commitments. I think infps are great, and other than both of us being too shy to talk, i think we get along super well. Take care!

Posted by unders on Jul 27, 2008 and, thanks for joining just to respond to me. I really appreciate it! =)

Posted by mkb32 on Jul 28, 2008 Perseus, What the heck are you wriring about?

Posted by DrLovegood on Jul 29, 2008 unders -- you could be right about my descriptions of Idealists. I do have a natural bias although I try to compensate for it.

Posted by Sasha on Jul 31, 2008 Oh ... hmmm ... ya, I can't help you with the extrovers. If I had the 'E' to just let it all out ... I'ld be like 'stand back world because here comes SASHA!'. :D

Posted by ChampionMom on Aug 7, 2008 I'm an ENFP myself and I can tell you that I like to keep my options open. It's difficult for me to be tied down to anyone or anything. I broke up with my husband twice while we were dating. And I didn't even know why. He's an awesome ENTP. I didn't know anything about this personality thing at the time, sure do wish I had. The number one thing I wish my husband could give me is more indulgence. I need to know that he can give me room to spread my wings and be myself. He's pretty patient but not very indulgent. Obviously as a rational he wants the bottom line and thinks he's being helpful by pointing out my mistakes. NOT SO!

Posted by ChampionMom on Aug 7, 2008 Also, as a champion idealist, I can take a lot of garbage from people and generally see the good in them no matter what. Until you cross the line. I don't actually know where that line is until you cross it. And then you're history. I will never speak to you again if you cross it. Generally, it means you have insulted me to the very core and you expect me to take it and come back tomorrow like nothing happened. I can't do that. As for keeping in contact with friends, I'm terrible. Thank heaven for Face Book and blogging or else I wouldn't have contact with anyone. If you call me, I'm there, but I can't organize it. Here's the thing, I worry that my friends are the ones who are superficial. Not me. If we're friends, we're friends. But I am a worried that people are only friends with me for the moment and that they don't want me to call. I would never want to be with somebody who doesn't want to be with me, so friends have to let me know in very clear terms that they want me around. I'll be the life of the party if I think that people genuinely like me. Unders, if you haven't been clear with your ENFP friends that you have every indulgence for them, and sometimes only them if it's a romantic relationship, then they will not impose on your life at all. Make it clear that you won't try to make them be something that you can use to your own advantage and they might be more open.

Posted by The_Winch on Aug 8, 2008 MENSA did a study that interviewed thousands of people and concluded that while N's comprise only 20% of the population, N's comprise 80% of the MENSA population. This makes sense since IQ tests typically test the ability to abstract, and since N's want to abstract, they are more likely to be good at it. So if you want to meet N's, go to MENSA meetings. Be warned however that they are dominated by males. One unfortunately apt acronym for MENSA is Men Still Available.

Posted by mwagt on Aug 9, 2008 For me this is right on the dot dr.Lovegood (im an INFP). Most people get the idea that I have 'no backbone' and easily change what I do to comfort another (if possible all others at the same time). However there are certain things that are unnegotiable for me, if they hit a spot like that and I disagree with them, I explode and there's really no way they can persuade me. I can't let go either. I have to convince them that the way they see it is wrong. That is to say, I do that if I'm in a trusted environment, or care so much about the subject that I don't care who else hears the argument. If not I avoid them for long, long time. It doesn't happen a lot because I hang out only with a few trusted people and they usualy have the same opinions I have. I've seen the look of utter surprise in their eyes when it happened though. That's probably the reason you didn't see it in a NFP yet unders... (though i'm an I and cannot speak for an ENFP). It's good to know it's not the same way for other types. I might be able to contain the 'explosion' a bit next time for their sake (though I can't promise you that ;)

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